Resilience and Suicide Prevention Summit

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Join us as we bridge the gap between alternative and mainstream education, bringing forward solutions and strategies that address some of the most pressing challenges in today’s educational landscape. Your voice and engagement are key to our collective success. See you at the webinar!

Jason Johnson:
Okay. Well let me introduce who we have joining us, because we’ve got some really important guests with us today. So we’re thrilled to be joined by our usual, Christian Moore. Little background on Christian for those that may not be aware. Christian is the internationally renowned speaker, licensed clinical social worker and advocate for youth. He’s the founder of the WhyTry program, and we’ve been hosting these kind of series of webinars and been joined by experts in their fields, and we’re thrilled today to have one of the leading experts in the country on suicide prevention, Dr. Greg Hudnall.

Jason Johnson:
Dr. Hudnall is a former high school principal. He’s considered one of the leading experts in community and school-based suicide prevention, intervention, and postvention. He lives by the mantra, while it takes a village to raise a child, it takes an entire community to save one. I love that. Welcome, Dr. Hudnall. Thanks for joining us.

Greg Hudnall:
Thank you for the opportunity. Glad to be here.

Jason Johnson:
And then we are also … I should introduce myself. My name is Jason Johnson, I’m a trainer with the WhyTry organization, oversee research and development. My background is I’m a school psychologist. Then really thrilled, we’ve got three special guests today. We’ve got students who are trained in the Hope Squad and have some kind of unique experience and perspective on the topic of suicide prevention.

Jason Johnson:
I’m going to introduce them. We’ve got Kylee Tidwell. She is the president of the national council for the Hope Squad. She’s a senior and goes to … I’m not even, I’m not going to say the name right, Kylee. How do you say it?

Kylee Tidwell:
It’s Nuames High School.

Jason Johnson:
Nuames High School.

Kylee Tidwell:
Yeah.

Jason Johnson:
In Layton, Utah. She’s been part of the Hope Squad for three years. She loves the community and a passion is surrounding its mission. It’s fun to be a part of the group, driven and kind to peers. Memphis Owen joins us from Bonneville High School. Welcome Memphis. Memphis is a sophomore, second year on Hope Squad. She loves it because it teaches her how she can help people while also teach skills that she’ll use forever in life.

Jason Johnson:
Then we are joined by Claire Champagne. Welcome Claire. Claire is a senior. Is that correct, a senior? At Logan High School. You’re one of those unique seniors that’s dealing with one of the most unusual senior years that I’m aware of. So I’m interested in that perspective as well. Claire’s been on the Hope Squad for two years. Loves the important everyday life skills that Hope Squad teaches her. So thank you everybody for joining us. We’re thrilled to have you.

Jason Johnson:
Christian, did you have any luck with your audio or is it still struggling? Looks like it may still be struggling. So that’s all right. Maybe we can just jump right into the topic at hand because we’ve had a tremendous amount of interest in this topic. It’s a very serious and a very important topic. I think what I’d like to do, Greg, if it’s okay with you, maybe we can just jump right into it, and if you have, I know you had some ideas you wanted to get right into. What do you think? How would you say we can start this topic?

Greg Hudnall:
One of the things, Jason, that as we work with parents and work with school districts and communities, one of the things we start out talking about is really giving the permission to talk about suicide and ask those difficult questions. Too many times we as adults are afraid that if we ask someone if they’re thinking about suicide or thinking about taking their life that it’s going to give them the idea, when in reality the research shows that in most cases kids have already thought about it. Young people and even adults have already thought about it, and one of the best things that we can do is talk about it. We started the Hope Squad program because we had an amazing young man, very popular, come to school after the Christmas holidays, take his watch off, give it to his best friend, said, “I’m not going to need this after tomorrow.” He went on to tell five other friends that he was going to take his life, and not one of those friends told an adult. So the Hope Squad really trains, and that’s what you’re going to see from these three amazing young ladies that are with us, the ability to reach out and talk about it.

Greg Hudnall:
So I think that’s the first thing that’s important to understand, is we’re giving permission for you, that if you’re a teacher, if you’re a parent, if you’re a counselor, a principal, whoever it is at a school, and you have a student that you’re worried about, to have the courage to ask those questions. Have you thought about hurting yourself? Have you thought about suicide? Have you thought about killing yourself? So that’s one of the things that is really important for people to start feeling comfortable with.

Jason Johnson:
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate you starting with that. For a long time there was kind of a conventional thought that this was something we couldn’t talk about, shouldn’t talk about. It’s been a little bit more recent that the research has really showed that it’s actually important to be able to talk about. Christian, did you get your audio fixed?

Christian Moore:
Yep, yep, yep. Everything is working now, I think. Can you hear me okay?

Jason Johnson:
Yeah, you sound great.

Christian Moore:
All right. Yeah. I think we got it fixed. Along the lines that you were just saying Greg … It’s still bouncing back a little bit, but I’m wondering if we should go completely out and back in. You might want to just do that. But its fine, I’ll just keep going. Hopefully it will just, it will go away. But basically I think it’s really important what you were just talking about there, Greg. Is also being able to normalize their feelings. When they feel feelings of anger, depression, anxiety, fear, that students understand that those are feelings, that it’s part of the human condition, everybody feels those feelings. Sometimes in our society and our world we have a lot of kids that think those feelings, that something is majorly wrong with them that is not okay to have those feelings, but it’s just the human condition. We all feel a wide array of emotions. What are some of your feelings on that?

Greg Hudnall:
It’s interesting, Christian, because you’re right on, especially right now with the coronavirus situation. The social distancing is also creating the social isolation. So kids are being pent-up with their families, parents. Others are struggling with these kids, it’s almost that cabin fever. One of the things I learned a long time ago, anger covers three emotions. Anger covers fear, hurt, or disappointment. So as an adult, as a parent, I try to train leaders and teachers and others that when you see that kid who is angry, try to start peeling back the layers, but try not to dismiss the anger. Too many times we as adults say, “Oh, just get over it. Oh, just suck it up.” We don’t recognize and honor those true emotions that they’re going through.

Christian Moore:
Absolutely, absolutely. Because my sound wasn’t working here really good, I did want to take a minute and introduce Greg a little bit more. Greg with Hope Squad is literally doing, I think, some of the most innovative work in this country around suicide. I personally have seen him cope with the aftermath of a suicide, and bringing a community together and do some incredible stuff. So I wanted to thank him for being here with us. I’m so excited that Greg’s here. He also offered me my first job as a school social worker. So I appreciate what he’s doing, and his insight on suicide is tremendous.

Christian Moore:
Another intervention I want to point out here real quick that we find it’s really important is having the hope of a future promise, having something to look forward to, believing that change is possible, because if you don’t believe that things can change, it’s hard to have that internal hope to just keep pushing through and deal with the intensity of those level of emotions. So what are some of your feelings around that, Greg, of having a future promise?

Greg Hudnall:
Yeah, one of the things I always quote when I work with kids in schools is that hope is our greatest future. Kids have to know that there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. [Joyner 00:08:40] who is one of our pre researchers on suicide in the world talks about that there’s three areas that when an individual gets ready to take their life, the number one reason young people and even adults take their life is they feel all alone, and they feel like that there’s no one there that’s understanding what they’re going through.

Greg Hudnall:
Then the second part of it is that they feel like they’re a burden. There is no hope, there’s nothing to hold on to, so I might as well not live. Then that capability. He said when those pieces come together, then it’s that perfect storm for someone to be at risk for suicide. One of the things that I work with families, with kids that are struggling with anxiety, and our teachers can do the same thing. One of the things I try to train them is you need to have structure. So right now we have a lot of parents that are telling kids, “Oh, you can sleep in, you can do whatever you want.” And sometimes that actually leads to more depression, more anxiety. So that structure so the kids know that this is the bedtime, this is the time we wake up, these are the activities that we’re doing, because there will be a tomorrow, there will be something to look forward to and there will be things that will be available in our life.

Christian Moore:
Yeah. I think sometimes I know when I was a therapist I overlooked this too often, but just the most simple things, more regular sleep, eating, exercise, all those things are so important, which you were just alluding to there. That just make sure we do those basic things. I know one thing that’s really powerful too is another intervention is to make sure that there’s always a story, a very complex painful story as it relates to suicide. Make sure that story is heard, it’s understood, it comes out and it comes out in a safe place where there’s not any judgment and a really good friend can just let them be heard, sometimes give them a ton of advice, they’re going to maybe do the best thing, but to let them get the story out then go with them to get more professional help or to get in a safe place to deal with the intensity that they’re dealing with. Again, it’s so important for them to be heard.

Greg Hudnall:
Yeah, I had a young lady who’s just phenomenal, and very popular in her high school, very beautiful, and she shared with me a story about she had struggled with severe depression her entire life, and she said, “Dr. Hudnall, every day I get out of bed wondering if I’m going to live or if I’m going to die.” And she said, “If it hadn’t been for a Hope Squad member who recognized that I was struggling.” She said, “I got to a point where I felt hopeless and I felt that no one cared about me, I just wanted to give up.” What this other student who was a classmate recognized and reached out to her and just said, “Hey, are you doing okay?” And then this young lady started to cry. She talked about how we’re so judgemental in our society and we tend to almost compartmentalize people. So if you act this way oh, then you’re weird, if you do this you’re whatever. She said we … Especially it’s not just young people, I see it as adults, we tend to judge people and it can become very offensive. She said, “My dream is that as a world we become more accepting, more kind, and less judgemental.” I love that comment.

Christian Moore:
Yeah, I love that. I love that. That’s powerful. Another one I think is so important is I know my own life, remembering what I have overcome in my past is something that helps me a lot when I’m feeling intense depression. It just is, as a business owner, going into COVID and dealing with all of these tremendous opposition, all these difficulties right now, I have to remind myself hey, I have overcome things in my past, getting through school with learning disabilities, the challenges I have with learning disabilities in the work place, different things, and just really saying, “Hey, this is what I did in the past. I can build on that for the future.”

Greg Hudnall:
Every one of us have a story. Every one of us have experiences, and I honestly have caught myself a couple of weeks ago feeling so overwhelmed. Working from home, not getting outside, not having the good diet, the good exercise, and sleeping well. Two other things, my wife is a therapist and she works for the VA, specializes in PTSD, and two of the things that she really reminded me and helped me work on, number one, is getting sunshine. I would encourage those parents, others, that step outside, even if it’s just on the patio, on the sidewalk, or even through the window, but get that light, that warmth, because it’s amazing what those sun rays do to help us.

Greg Hudnall:
Then the second one is the deep breathing. When we start to become anxious and start to become depressed, you take that deep breath and then you hold it. I walked into a classroom one time as a principal and this amazing teacher was having her 42 kids in her English class doing these deep breathing. Afterwards I said, “Whoa, what were you doing?” And she said, “I had two kids I could tell that were starting to stress out, and instead of picking on those individual students, I stood up in front of the class and said, ‘Class, one of the things that I struggle with is anxiety, and every once in a while it starts to hit me and I need you to know that I’m struggling with it today. So I would like you to join with me to start doing this breathing.’” And it was interesting because she shared, a couple of the kids folded their arms, put their head and the table and said, “This is stupid.” But she was amazed at how many of the students did it, and then about a week later she had a note on her desk from a student that she didn’t realize was struggling, and she said, “I want to thank you for having the courage to do that because it really has helped me in some other classes.”

Greg Hudnall:
We need to be that role model and that example with those things that can help kids learn to deal. We can’t make those anxieties go away, there’s no magical pill. There is medicine that helps in other things, but I think the more that we can be the role example and then help them get involved with it, the better we’re going to help our kids and our students.

Christian Moore:
That’s awesome. I’m always trying to figure out, as a social worker, I’m always trying to figure out those strategies, to not miss those kids that we don’t know, we don’t know where they are emotionally. One thing I do with families is I try to encourage the parents to create a safe space or a space time for the child where they can express anything. It could be something from a cue like if a child, if they just say the word ice cream that means they just want to go for a ride, and during that hour. It could be just a time during the day. I had another family, from one to two o’clock, anything the teenagers told them was a safe space. They wouldn’t be judged, put down, and the family would problem solve together.

Christian Moore:
Sometimes kids are so afraid when dealing with maybe a mistake they made, or something difficult, they’re feeling socially isolated from other people. If they have a time they know I can give this code word to my parent, I know between one and two o’clock anything I tell my parents, they’re going to work together with me as a team because I much rather these kids be able to talk to their parents and be safe. Sometimes it just naturally happens, but in some homes it’s really important that the child know it’s a specific time that they can literally talk to their parents about anything, and there’s rules that they know they’re going to be safe no matter what they express. Over the years I’ve seen that save a lot of kids’ lives. What are your feelings on that, Greg?

Greg Hudnall:
I love that, Christian, because one of the things that we work with families, the two things that jump to my mind. The number one protective factor is having one meal a day with no electronics. So we tell families, breakfast, lunch, dinner, even a midnight snack, I don’t care, but bring your family together, get rid of the electronics.

Greg Hudnall:
It was interesting, I had a father follow up with me and he said, “When we eat, all my kids do is argue. And they argue with me, and they argue with my wife, et cetera.” And I said, “That’s probably important in your family right now.” And he goes, “Why?” I said, “Because your children feel safe enough that they can argue and that they can debate and have those discussions.” I said, “When we used to go on, and still, my kids are grown now, but when we would go on vacations we would get in the van, we have four children, and the first 45 minutes all they did was argue.” They argued about space, they argued about stuff. I can remember a couple of times I’d look at my wife and go, “This is ridiculous. This is crazy. I want to go home.” And she would say, “No, let’s just keep driving.” And then about an hour later they were laughing, and joking, and we were telling stories, and singing songs. When we would come home we would talk about wow, that was such an amazing trip, and I forgot those first 45 minutes of the discussion and the debates.

Greg Hudnall:
So I think you’re so right. In our family we had a code word that we trained our kids at a very young age. I’ll never forget an experience, we were somewhere at another family, and I thought everything was going so well, we were having dinner with them and activities, and my son got up. I think he was about 11, and he used the word. All of us just stopped and looked at him. We knew then that we needed to go, and so we left. Our son shared with us a very challenging thing that was going on, but he needed to know that he could safely share with us without us challenging him, putting him down or whatever. You’re right on, that’s been such an amazing tool for us to remember.

Christian Moore:
Thanks, thanks. The other thing I want to emphasize, and I was really inspired by one of our past surgeon generals. He traveled the United States and he was trying to help people with heart disease and all these different issues that deal with the physical body. After doing that for a little while, what hit him was, and just hearing from thousands of people, that one of the biggest battles people are really struggling with is loneliness. He just said, “I want to pick up the sword for loneliness.” He goes, “Loneliness it has such an impact too on our physical health as well.” And he really inspired me. I need to apologize, I don’t have the name of his book, he recently came out with a book about this after being the surgeon general of the United States. One of the things that we’re realizing that leads to loneliness, and I’ve seen this in many, many communities, many, many schools across the country, it’s actually just a natural human thing that happens is we as humans, we cling to people who are like us. People with the same culture, ethnic group, background. In many schools we have the jock kids, the smart kids, the “nerds” not to label anybody, but we have all these different breakdowns, and this carries on into adulthood too.

Christian Moore:
Sometimes we create tremendous separation, and one of the most important things that I really believe has a huge impact, it could really start to lower suicide in this country is to really focus more on being inclusive and really fighting this concept of an in-group and an out-group mentality. I see the students nodding to that. Do you guys see in-group and out-group in your schools? And every kid across this country. I apologize to you. Adults need to be braver and speak out about this. There’s many reasons why we as adults don’t take this on and speak out about it, and we really have got to do this. One of the reasons, and I hope the students understand, one of the reasons adults don’t take this on or speak out about it sometimes is because we understand that it’s a protective factor to be part of a tribe and be part of a group. It’s a powerful, powerful, research shows it’s if not the most powerful protective factor, but when I talk to kids and adults that are really struggling with suicide, the two things they always say to me, and in the last 10 years particularly, is this country has become more divided as we celebrate what’s different about us and that this group is more right than this group, this group is more wrong.

Christian Moore:
We live in this world of trying to draw all these lines in the sands. That we’re realizing as we talk to these populations they always say two things, they say, “Hey, I feel lonely.” And just like what Greg was talking about, they feel like they’re a burden. They’re a burden, they almost know not to approach the in-group. It’s to approach that in-group is so dangerous, is so scary because they’ve [inaudible 00:21:44] and not that that’s really the perspective of the in-group. The in-group might well receive them, but it’s the perspective of the person who feels like giving up, shutting down, because they feel like maybe they’ve led that in-group down, they’re not good enough to be in that in-group. It’s just an issue that I think is really talked about, and I think that I see it constantly in the work I’m doing around suicide. I think we’ve got to really, really do things to bring people, bring that closeness, to bring inclusiveness, in one way in an online world that we can do that.

Christian Moore:
So I want to encourage teachers when you do group assignments, put students together that would never hang out with each other in a million years. From different socioeconomic status, cultural backgrounds, the jocks with maybe an academic kid or whatever. I don’t know, just bringing kids that didn’t have a conversation, why it’s important that we don’t have in and out-groups. That the bigger in-group we have I think is going to do a major, major impact on lowering suicide in this country. Again, kids talk to me about, and I travel almost every year to every state, and every child talks to me about this, and it’s something that I think we as adults have really got to step it up and have these conversations.

Christian Moore:
When I worked in the schools I used to take all of the … I better be back in a school soon, but when I was in a school, I don’t known when we’ll be back, but when I was in a school I would take all the faculty to the cafeteria and I would sit there for 30 minutes with the faculty and help them see how the school is divided up constantly into an in-group and an out-group. The faculty, some [inaudible 00:23:28] just start sobbing, they’re like, “I don’t know why I never even think about this. I don’t know why it would look like this.” And you see people in the most powerful positions in this country, they attack each other, they make it very clear, you’re not with me, if you’re not for me you’re against me. This is constantly going on, and I think some of the most sensitive people this hurts the most. I find out the people who care the most that are the most sensitive are the most hurt by this. These are the kids and families I’m talking to in this country that are suicidal. I just think that voice doesn’t [inaudible 00:24:01].

Christian Moore:
I’m going to be straight up, I even hesitated to share this because it’s not politically correct to talk about what I’m talking about, and I’ve gotten pushback at every step of the way of talking about this, but it is the very common denominator, and I appreciate I caught the students non verbal on this, and I appreciate that. What are your thoughts? I’m sorry, I just kind of [crosstalk 00:24:22].

Jason Johnson:
Yeah, thank you. Thank you Christian.

Christian Moore:
I see that the people, I’ve seen about 30 people are screaming I agree, and let’s put this topic on top of the table and change this because we cannot have the mentality of this in and out-group thinking.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you, Christian. I think this is a good time to throw it to the kids, but I wanted to make sure, Dr. Hudnall, do you have anything you want to add to that before we throw it over to the kids for their thoughts?

Greg Hudnall:
Society. About a year ago Times Magazine on the cover said 40 million adults feel all alone and feel like they have no one to talk to. If adults are feeling this way, how can you expect their children to be any different? So Christian, I think your challenge is great, but I think it has to be a little bit stronger. I think it has to begin with the community, and it has to begin with the families, and it has to bring everybody together that way. I as a church leader I brought my congregation together and I asked every adult that had a child from middle school to high school to give us just a little paragraph about them, and then I brought all of the adults together, and we passed out these booklets of all of these kids in our congregation, and it had information about them. Then I asked all the adults to when you see these kids I want you to reach out and say hi. I want you to remind them that you know them.

Greg Hudnall:
The first week I got a call from a parent of my congregation and she said, “My daughter came home freakout out because this 80-year-old was in the neighborhood and he said, ‘Oh, Lisa, how are you? I understand you’re on the soccer team at Provo High.’” Or whatever. But it was amazing how it changed the connection and that I belong to something, I’m part of something. Three months later we brought all the adults together and asked them about this experience. They talked about, I mean, it was amazing what the kids were feeling like now. They were included with the in-group. When we started to finish I had four or five adults say, “Hey, can we do this with adults in our congregation so the kids know who we are and we can feel connected?” Because what happens is when you start to feel connected, those walls come down, because then all of a sudden you are a part of that in-group and the individuals who feel like they’re respected and appreciated.

Greg Hudnall:
Yeah, I agree, Jason. I’d love to hear from Kylee, Memphis, and Claire. I would just like to make a comment to introduce them. These young ladies are members of Hope Squad. Hope Squad students are nominated by their peers. So we go into a high school, we go through every class, English class, and we ask the students, if you were struggling emotionally and needed to talk to someone, list the names of three of your peers that you would feel comfortable talking to. And the most amazing things is we were, when we started with our first school 2,100 kids nominated 40 students. The same 40 names rose to the top. Now, these three young ladies that you’re going to hear from now are national officers. They are highly respected by the Hope Squad members that are trained to recognize kids that are struggling and then they reach out to them.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you. Thanks for that introduction of them. So Claire, Kylee, Memphis, we’re going to throw it over to you. If you would like to share some thoughts we have a lot of educators and counselors that are very interested in this topic and they’re very interested in hearing your perspective on it. So I’m going to turn it over to you and please share some of your ideas with us.

Claire Champagne:
I really like what Christian said about the in-groups and the out-groups. There was a time I was in a musical class, and that’s so out of my comfort zone, and I was talking to some friends and they were like, “Yeah, your friend group seems really cool but they’re so intimidating.” Like my group of friends who we’ve been friends since elementary school. I hadn’t realized how intimidating that would come across as, and we’re just so close-knit. For me as a Hope Squad I’m always trying to look for people to reach out, and for those people who need a friend, but I hadn’t realized that, it hadn’t been brought to my attention that what I was doing, just being in my friend group, could come off an intimidating. I think once someone said that, like, “Oh, that’s kind of intimidating and you guys seem standoffish from getting to know other people.” That’s when, that was really a game changer for me and I started, I was, me and my friends started sitting with new people at lunch. Like you said in class, when they’re like, “Pair up with a partner.” Vroom, you go to your friend, you know? But we started going out with different people, and that changed everything. I feel like that really helped me grow as a person, just trying to look out above my friend group.

Jason Johnson:
Awesome, thank you.

Christian Moore:
I agree.

Kylee Tidwell:
Yeah. I feel like I have definitely seen the in and out-group. I think that it’s really normal to be drawn to people who are similar to you because that’s what’s comfortable, and even within my own Hope Squad, I’m the president of my school’s Hope Squad, and it was brought to our attention that there was even some cliqueness and division within the Hope Squad, because with Hope Squad people nominate people they look up to, and so that brings a bunch of people from different groups to one group. It changes the dynamic of the school a lot, so I think what really helps with changing the in and out is just to be intentional as an individual and then also as a leader. As the president I have to be intentional on how am I going to get these kids to connect because they have similarities that just aren’t as visible as the immediate draws make you into a group. Just to be willing to get out of their comfort zone.

Kylee Tidwell:
So we start kind of playing games, and like what Chris was kind of saying, and Claire, is like dividing with teachers or with my advisor, we put groups together that wouldn’t normally be drawn together and would have them be in charge of planning an event, of planning a day for our Hope Week, which is our week to kind of bring awareness for suicide prevention, and that really helped kind of break down some of those walls and that cliqueness because it made kids realize we have something that’s drawing up together and that is holding us together, and just because it’s not visible in the moment doesn’t mean it’s not important.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you. Memphis.

Memphis Owen:
Yeah, just to go along with what the other Claire and Kylee said, I know that our school we also definitely have those groups. It’s just really a prevalent thing, but one of the things that I really liked that my advisor had us do is before the beginning of every trimester she gives us the challenge, and we have two weeks to know the names of every person in every single one of our classes, and then we’re challenged to go and talk to them and use their names when we see them in the hall. Not just be like, “Oh hey.” But to be like, “Hi Kylee, hi Claire.” That way they know that you are actually talking to them and you know who they are.

Memphis Owen:
Also to try to eliminate those kind of the cliques and the groups in our Hope Squad, this past week my advisor, we were all online, she decided that she was going to have us give some presentations. Instead of being like, “Okay, just pick your partner and then give your presentation.” She was like, “No, I’m going to pair you guys up.” So she paired me with one of the seniors, which I knew her named and I talked to her before, but I didn’t know her super well. So we got to present together and it was really fun just to get to know her and I thought it was an excellent idea because it helped break up some of those groups because we had to get a little bit more close so that we could work together.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you, thank you. A couple of things that are coming up right now. So right now we’re in an interesting situation where connection is a little bit difficult, and then there’s still I think is a general nervousness by people, by adults, on how to approach this topic and this conversation. I want to throw it to the whole panel, but I’d love to hear from the students first your perspective. What are your ideas right now on connection? What’s working for you, what are you seeing your teachers do? What message would you share to the educators that are out there as far as connection right now during this pandemic situation goes? And then also it’s kind of a two part question I guess. What advice would you give to grown ups that don’t know how to approach or start this conversation, because it could be awkward sometimes?

Memphis Owen:
So to answer the first question about educators. First of all, just thank you guys for everything that you do. We students really do appreciate everything because it’s really just crazy everything that’s going on. But really what I would say to that is just really be looking out for them and be checking up on your students. I know at least what my teachers are, we’re doing Google Meets right now, so there’s a lot of us that they’re encouraging us all to participate so that we sill get to do that interaction and just letting them know that they still care about us and they’re there to help us out.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you, thank you. It looks like you just got muted for a minute, Memphis. Did you get a chance to finish your thought, that last thought?

Memphis Owen:
No. Can you repeat what the second question was?

Jason Johnson:
Yeah. What advice do you have for grownups that may be nervous about or not know how to approach this subject or have a conversation about it with kids, the subject of suicide and suicide prevention in general?

Memphis Owen:
Yes, so the advice that I would give is just to be genuine and not to be afraid to talk about it because it does seem really scary at first, but really if you will bring that up and ask them, “Hey, I notice that you’re struggling. Are you thinking about killing yourself or anything like that?” It really does open the communication. So even though it does seem pretty scary, it actually opens up that communication to whoever [inaudible 00:35:28] so that they know I can talk about this because they brought it up, and so I don’t have to feel like I’m going to be shunned or maybe judged if I bring it up because they brought it up for me. So it really opens that communication. So I would say just be genuine and be yourself, and don’t be afraid to talk about it.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you, thank you. Kylee, it looks you had some ideas.

Kylee Tidwell:
Yeah. So first of all with the trying to stay connected as an educator, what I have really seen work with my classes because all my classes are online. We’ve had live Zoom calls and I realize that not every school has the resources to support that, but I’ve seen that the live calls where we’re able to see our teacher face-to-face and connect with them, even if it’s not necessarily focused on our new material. But also like my statistics teacher, he just opens every call and he just kind of asks us how we’re doing, and we just kind of have a discussion about how are we feeling, and it doesn’t even … And people will tell him about their day. I just feel like staying connected, right now society is in such an interesting place because everyone is experiencing the same things. My teachers are going through similar situations that I am, so having that moment to connect with them in a way that’s not pressured, but he’s frustrated as well, my teacher is frustrated as well, and he’s expressing that to us and we’re able to connect with him on that. Just to have that authenticity.

Kylee Tidwell:
Like what Memphis was saying, I think just being genuine about that. This isn’t an easy situation, but we’re all in it together has really helped people stay grounded during this time. What the whole discussion and try and talk about suicide and if they’re considering suicide. It’s always an awkward conversation. I’ve been on Hope Squad for three years and I still feel uncomfortable when I’m talking to someone about their situation. Just because it’s never easy, it’s really vulnerable and it’s a really intense question, and it’s okay to have it be like that. Again, authenticity is just what’s important. A lot of times I’ve seen that. At least the teenagers that I’ve been talking to, they can see when their adults or when their parent or their guardians are not being genuine with them, and they can tell when it’s something that they’re just trying to get through rather than to open up that conversation and have it be real. So I think what’s really important is to open the conversation and say like, “You know what? This is uncomfortable for me as well, and I just really want to check up on you because I care about you and you’re important to me, so I’m willing to have this conversation with you.”

Kylee Tidwell:
So it’s okay for it to be uncomfortable, but that’s kind of the powerful part because once you kind of have that conversation, once you get everything on the table, there is a deeper connection and there is room for more conversations to continue after the initial hard difficult question.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you so much, Kylee. I love that. Claire, anything you want to add?

Claire Champagne:
I think both of those girls said amazing things. I think one thing I’ve seen my teachers do is just when I’m submitting assignments and they email, they’ll say, “Hope you’re doing good.” And for some reason that just means a lot knowing that they’re caring about me as a person and that they’re just checking in, and just normalizing saying how are you and trying to make time, instead of just being like, “Good, how are you?” Taking time so they can see that you’re genuine. But yeah, I think what the girls have said is really good.

Jason Johnson:
Awesome, thank you. Greg, Christian, to throw it over to you now. What are your thoughts along those same lines?

Christian Moore:
One thing I really loved Kylee was saying that hit me really hard is, and I’m seeing this as I talk to lots of teachers, is they’re hurting too. They’re hurting tremendously. Teachers are in a lot of pain, and a lot of the teachers have said to me when they can interact with the students, when they hear how you guys are doing and that connection has meant a lot to those teachers too. I mean, so I want the students to know you’re helping those teachers heal when you’re really authentic and you tell them how you’re really doing, that means so much to those teachers and it kind of gives them strength to give doing a very difficult job. So I want students to understand you make a huge difference for those teachers as well. Just looking for ways to keep the lines of communication open between the teachers and the students. So we’re going to have another webinar here in the next few little while just focusing just on strategies to do that. We’ve talked about that in past webinars as well, but that’s a huge, huge need. In WhyTry we’re going to continue to provide a lot of those resources.

Christian Moore:
Then keeping that up with the parents. I know Greg is really passionate about having families have the tools to deal with these issues as well, and maybe Greg you can talk a little bit about that as well. I know that’s something you’re very passionate about.

Greg Hudnall:
Yeah, one of the things that we learned early on is that it’s important for the family to feel connected. When you start to hit middle school it’s more important for kids to belong to a friendship than it is to belong to a family. You think about Maslow, Maslow says, “Families provide food, clothing, shelter and safety, and then society provides everything else.” But what we’re finding is more and more families with that skillset. They want to know how to talk about it and how to provide that support. So we created 14 family lessons on mental health. Anywhere from training parents on how to teach and train coping and problem solving skills, how to talk about suicide prevention, how to talk about ways to support, especially if they have a family member or a friend who is struggling with mental health issues, and those are on our website. Those are free, I know Jason is going to put those up at the end of where you can download.

Greg Hudnall:
The other thing that I would go back, and I want to compliment my kids, my students, the Hope Squad members, they’re just phenomenal. Everywhere we go we find these kids that are just wanting to make a difference with their life. I was in Idaho at a conference speaking, and when they opened it up for questions, one of the individuals from the audience said, “You mean you’re training kids to talk other kids off the ledge.” And at first I went, “No.” Yeah, we do do that because I would challenge anyone to walk through the halls of the school and you hear these conversations. These kids what we’re doing is empowering them on how to recognize the signs, and reach out and help.

Greg Hudnall:
Then the last part is for teachers and the adults in the school. I think the students really talked about it. Kids don’t want to be projects. It’s important for us to be sincere, and one of the other things that I have found to be very helpful is always call your students by their first name. Hey Kylee, how you doing? Hey, Memphis, hey Claire, nice to have you in class today. It’s amazing when someone knows you and calls your name, what that does to you for your self-esteem and for that ability to feel that you do belong to someone or belong to something. So I would really encourage, specially online. Teachers, when you pull those kids together, find time during that 30 minute, that 50 minute discussion to call on every single one. Hey Kylee, I want to thank you for that comment. Hey, Claire, thanks for the thing that you shared. Memphis, I never thought of that. Then I think what Kylee said is really important is that it’s okay to share your struggles. It’s okay to, you know what? It is a tough situation and here I am in my closet trying to teach you today, and it’s tough being in the home. I want you to know I’m struggling with cabin fever. So thank you for allowing me to spend some time with you today. Those things are genuine, they’re honest.

Greg Hudnall:
Then the last part that I would throw out there is always using the iMessage. I love when the students talked about talking with a friend. I noticed in class, saying, “I heard this about you and I’m wondering if you’re okay.” Because then it’s not attacking. It’s a very safe way to approach. Hey, tonight at dinner I noticed that you got really upset with your sister. That’s usually not like you. I’m wondering if you’re okay.

Jason Johnson:
Great insights. I love that. Really, really appreciate that and I think a lot of educators right now are really feeling validated in their feelings. I hope one of the things that our educators and counselors that are listening right now are taking away from this is hopefully a rejuvenation to make it across the finish line and really continue to reach out and connect with their students, because the last couple weeks as we’ve talked with students on these it’s been really, really evident to me how much the students really do appreciate the effort that their educators and counselors are making to connect with them. So I hope you all are feeling that.

Jason Johnson:
There’s one other thing I wanted to bring up and it’s a big question and it’s a heavy question, but it’s come up a couple times in the comments, and I think it’s important. What advice or strategies do you all have for communities that have experienced a recent death to a student or a community member to suicide? What strategies do you have for people in the aftermath of that as far as how to approach the subject, how to talk about it, and how to support one another through that? Because we’ve got some people on right now that have unfortunately experienced that in their community as well.

Greg Hudnall:
We’re working with a community right now, Spanish Fork, I oversee a crisis team. We have about 40 members and unfortunately I’ve been involved now with about 50 youth suicides, the youngest a fourth grader that took his life on campus. One of the things that we start out with is when we actually go in and meet with the mayor, the city council, mental health. We bring all of those folks together to start having the discussion, to start talking about it.

Greg Hudnall:
The other thing that happens unfortunately is the family that loses the child everyone is afraid to talk to them, and it really does affect that family. So we encourage families to immediately, if you’re friends with so-and-so, please go over because they’re hurting and they need someone to talk to. So you could take over a meal, you could go over and mow their yard. There’s many things that you could do that just shows hey, I’m worried about you, I care about you, and is there anything that I can do to help? And then we start training the community. Over the next six months we’ll probably do 50 presentations, faith based groups, businesses, mental health agencies, we do QPR, we do suicide 101. We also go into the schools and we start training the schools and giving them the help and support because too many times when there’s a suicide in a school we just want it to go away, we don’t want to talk about it, and that’s one of the worst things that we can do because we want to do everything that we can to prevent the copycat and prevent the contagion.

Greg Hudnall:
So we start working with the school, we have the crisis team onboard, we start allowing the students to talk about it. That morning of the day of the suicide we actually meet with all the teachers and we give them a note that they’re going to read second period to every class, but we also give the teachers the ability to start talking about the suicide in the class. I know you’re hurting, help me understand how you’re feeling. So that we want to make sure that we don’t cause more confusions, more problems, we want to address it head on and provide that support.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you, thank you. Christian and the students, what ideas do you have in regards to the same question, kind of supporting strategies for communities that have experienced that?

Christian Moore:
I just want to say I’ve seen firsthand Greg go in and do this in many, many communities, the Hope Squad do this, and it’s been a great inspiration to me. It’s just been unbelievable. Greg is not going to tell you this, but I’ve personally seen Greg make personal sacrifice economically but just time, he never stops thinking about this. He does this 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and that’s why Hope Squad and what Greg Hudnall does, he’s literally one of my heroes on this planet. He does incredible stuff for bringing the community together.

Christian Moore:
One thing that I do a lot when I go into communities after these situations is I emphasize to the community that resilience is within all of us. What leads to a suicide sometimes is something, after a suicide happens we’ll beat ourselves up, we might be angry at the person that committed suicide and stuff, but what I’ve learned is it’s so important that we give that person grace. I try to encourage the community that a lot of times there’s mental health issues and different things around suicide and that we have to be able to give that person grace and the give ourselves grace when that happens as well, that forgiveness. One of the things that kills resilience, you can’t bounce back, you can’t be resilient if you emotionally beat yourself up and you attack another human being. It’s really, really hard to heal, and I think that’s so important. Then we teach something with our resilience work, we call flipping the switch, that when a crisis or pain, you see millions of people are doing this right now with COVID. There’s tremendous pain, there’s the loneliness the suffering, and the people who are saying to themselves, “Okay, I’m going to use this suffering, I’m going to use this pain as a reason to reach out to another human being, to connect with another human being.” Creates that resilience.

Christian Moore:
So it’s so important that we realize we even have the switch within us that we can flip in a crisis. Again, the gateway to flipping that switch is to say to yourself, how do I use this suffering? How do I use this lowest moment of my life to try to work harder, to put things in action, and the healing often happens in a community, and that’s what’s so effective about what Hope Squad does, is it doesn’t just passively sit by. Hope Squad puts action into the community and then that action is what creates the motivation. So motivation and a desire to be resilient, to push through doesn’t start until the action happens, and that’s why I’m so proud about what Hope Squad and Greg’s work is. It really puts the action in place for the healing to start. I just want everybody to know out there that everybody has that switch. Resilience, and people always ask me, “Do you have to learn resilience? Are you born with it?” And I really believe you can learn skills of resilience but if you’re a human being on planet Earth, you’re highly resilient, you have it within you.

Christian Moore:
I think that resilience kind of really bring that community together, when they understand that to be able to have that grace for each other, because there’s a lot of emotions. I mean, I had one of my closest friends, past week he took his life, death by suicide, and it’s very painful that forgiveness is so important, is so needed. I just want to plant that seed in the community, and all of those things to put it out in the table and to be able to really talk about it. To talk about what in this community … At a community level, what are we doing to create in-group and out-groups at a community level? That’s some of the stuff I’m working on, is to talk about are the thing the community can do to create a larger in-group? Because if we know the biggest protective factor of course is that in-group, how do we expand that in-group into the community when this loss has happened? Because again, when I talk to many of the people who take, right before they take their lives, man, they’re not feeling attached to too many things in the community in general. Just like in general, so I think that’s so important.

Christian Moore:
I think what Hope Squad does, and the reason I’m on this was Greg. I mean, Greg is literally my hero. This is a guy who does nothing but this work. A hero is not a light word. I hope I haven’t embarrassed Greg here, but he’s the best in the business. He really is when it comes to this.

Greg Hudnall:
I know we’re running out of time, Jason, but one of the things that I see a bunch of questions about, cutting and other things that way. I would just like to end with a couple of comments on that. The CDC, Center for Disease Control has come out and said that there is now a direct correlation from cutting to suicide. For many years we just used it as teenage problems, kids going struggling or whatever. The two places that kids are cutting themselves now, between the toes and under the armpits so that families don’t, because we’ve trained for 10 years families how to check their children or whatever. But my point is if you have a child, or a student, or someone that’s cutting, please give them help immediately. Have them talk to the professionals, because that now is a direct link to suicide, and we want to do everything that we can to early intervene to provide support and help for them.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you, thank you. I appreciate that reminder. It’s a really, really important topic. I wanted to give our student guests. Christian, did you have one more thing?

Christian Moore:
Yeah, I just want to add importance of physical touch. So many kids are complaining to me, man, I just, I [inaudible 00:53:40] what that loneliness is tied to, I don’t feel a lot of physical touch. Sometimes I tell parents, and especially of teenagers, man, hug them three, four times a day. My goal is by the end of the day my kids are like, “Stop touching me.” That is my goal. They’re like, “Dad, leave me alone. Don’t touch me.” And that’s a little bit my goal by the end of the day, to be that annoying goofy parent because, and when you do hug them, I mean, Hans, who created WhyTry with me, I mean, he’s awesome [inaudible 00:54:10], he’s always screaming, “Man, hug your kids for at least 20 second hugs, 30 second hugs, a minute hug.” And he really advocates that, and have found, especially work I’ve done with kids who are cutting to, when we can get the parents to … I’m not saying that it solves, that’s not what cause it, it’s more complex than that, but we’ve seen that hunger from so many children. So I just want to plant that seed.

Jason Johnson:
Yeah, thank you. Hey, our student friends, parting thoughts on what we’ve been discussing? One other thing that’s come up, and maybe you could give some brief insight into this. There’s been a ton of good information. What are you doing right now, students, what does your outreach look like right now under social distancing conditions? How are you doing that? That question has come up a few times and that’s probably the last one we’ll get to before we wrap up.

Kylee Tidwell:
Yeah. And I also just want to speak really quickly also to what we were kind of talking about before, which is kind of trying to recover. A thought that I had is just that having grace with yourself, it can be really difficult, and it can be really hard. I’ve seen that, because especially as a Hope Squad member. If there is a community that have a Hope Squad kid and then there’s a suicide, it can be really painful because they take on responsibility. Just what I tell my kids is that this is not information you’re born with, this is something you learn and there’s always more room to learn, and that these experiences are painful but just to remember that suicide in many cases is a choice and it’s a decision, and we’re here to help, but that you just need to have grace for yourself in the process because it’s not an easy situation to be in at all.

Kylee Tidwell:
So yeah, so that was my thought, and then also just something that the national council has really been trying to do, which is the national council for Hope Squad, which we’re on that, these are my girls, the council members. We have been really focusing on social media reach out, because right now it’s all virtual, and a lot of kids are spending a lot of time on social media, and it can be very negative because people are expressing their feelings during this time, and that negativity is just another place for kids to be brought down in. So as a national council we’ve been really focusing on having positive messages sent out every single day, reminders, and then every Monday we just have a time where people can share what has brought them hope throughout the week. What I have seen is that it really helps encourage people to not only take a time to remember that not everything is terrible right now, but there’s always something to be hopeful about and to be thankful for. But also just a place for kids to get involved.

Kylee Tidwell:
Right now I feel like a lot of people around me, they don’t really have anything to do and they feel really disconnected, and if they’re able to contribute to something even virtually online, shared, that is something that’s really encouraging to them because they’re able to see that. I share it onto our whole Instagram what has brought them hope and that they contributed to that and to that post. So that’s why my goal has really been, is to say that positive light on social media when a lot of other places tend to be more on the negative side.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you so much, Kylee, great insight. Claire, Memphis, anything you want to add?

Memphis Owen:
I was just going to say I really think that what Kylee said is just amazing, and the National Hope Squad Instagram, I actually personally don’t have any social media, so I’ve had to find other ways to reach out and connect with people. But one of the things that I found that is really effective is the people that live around me, I’ve just been leaving things on their doorsteps, and I’ve had people leave stuff just on our doorsteps, just saying like, “Hey, I’m thinking about you today. I hope you have a great day.” That way they know that even though we can’t be face-to-face, there’s those little things that it’s like I’m still there for you and just making sure to keep.

Jason Johnson:
Awesome, thank you.

Claire Champagne:
I really agree with, again, what the other two girls said that is really good. I also want to touch on something that Kylee said, is that a lot of times in schools, friends of kids who have committed suicide or just students in general, I think that situation they’re looking for something to blame or someone to blame, and I think a lot of the time that blame goes to Hope Squad kids. This is your responsibility, why didn’t you stop this? I think what Kylee said is really good, and yeah, just keeping your Hope Squad kids in mind. I know a lot of times I take responsibility when I shouldn’t, and it was just to remember that everyone has their own choices and their ability to choose.

Claire Champagne:
Any who, but ways that I’ve been getting, helping other kids is just I think seeing that negativity on Instagram or whatever social media, and immediately texting that person that says the negativity. I think through nowadays a lot of kids, social media is their outlet, and they’ll just go on a huge rant, or just express how, I have a friend who often expresses how alone she feels on Instagram, and as soon as I see that I send her a text, just, “Hey, how are you doing?” Because it’s obviously a big cry for help. I think too, spending a lot of time on social media hasn’t been super great for me throughout this quarantine, but I really like what Memphis did and I’ve kind of done something similar. Is getting outside of myself and I’ll take chalk and go to my friends’ houses and write them notes on their driveway, or just neighbors like that. I really liked what Kylee said too, just trying to involve people as much as possible, and I think that’s what has been the hardest for me throughout this quarantine, is just being isolated and having, not being able to occupy my brain with doing other things and helping other people. So I think however you can involve your kids is awesome.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you so much. I’m going to throw it over to Greg and Christian for parting words. Before we do, a lot of people have asked a couple answers to your questions. One, we are recording this, and the video will be available probably within the next couple days, and then two, I’m going to put up a slide here when Christian and Greg are done with their remarks, then I’ll have some links to resources and email addresses that you can reach out to us with questions or to take a look at some of the resources that we’ve referenced. But before we go to that, Christian, Greg, parting thoughts. This has been wonderful.

Christian Moore:
I want to give Greg the last word because this is definitely his area of expertise. I just want to say I want to thank the students. Man, having you guys on with me was amazing, with me and Greg. It’s been awesome to have you guys. Your insights, I’ve learned a lot from you guys, and man, I’m so glad that you guys are doing the work you’re doing. You’re helping so many students. You guys are my heroes as well. Thank you, thank you. My heart is full. This has been a good one. It’s been a good meeting, and I know that so many people out there right now, they’re feeling lonely and all those things we talk about with connectiveness is so important. I love the idea of you go draw for your friends, chalk, taking chalk and drawing pictures and stuff, and all those things are so important. The little things are big things right now, I want to emphasize.

Christian Moore:
I’ve been working on a podcast. I just got a lot feedback from some people today who were feeling pretty hopeless, pretty depressed, pretty down, who reached out to me and said the podcast, we have a podcast called The Resilience Breakthrough Podcast where we’re talking about these issues all the time, and try to give people hope, and know where that resilience comes from. So please check out The Resilience Breakthrough Podcast. The easy way to access it is on our website, whytry.org. We also have a parenting guide that over 15,000 people across the country have downloaded and used, where we have really hundreds of resilience skills that parents can do with their kids. They’re just on our website. So those are two free resources that we want to encourage everybody to access.

Christian Moore:
Again, I want to thank my hero, the first person who gave me my introduction to social work, Greg. He had about 10 people he could hire and he finally said to me, he probably doesn’t remember, he’s like, “Christian, I’m going with you. You seem to have some heart.” And hired me because of my heart. I remember him telling me that, that I had a lot of heart, and I’ve tried to keep that heart going, but he’s been a great example to me of someone who has given everything to the cause. I mean, he’d probably be mad if I told you all this, but this man has mortgaged his house to do this, he has given everything, from his resources, his time, his heart, his passion, and he’ll probably be mad at me I told you all that, but this guy is the real deal, and what Hope Squad is doing is changing this world. It has been beyond a honor to be with you Greg and with everybody. Thank you.

Greg Hudnall:
Thank you. Thanks Christian and Jason. I want to thank WhyTry for sponsoring this. This is an amazing opportunity to discuss a difficult topic. Want to compliment our students, they’re amazing Hope Squad members, and the amazing thing is we have 20,000 Hope Squad members like them across the country who every single day get out of bed thinking, “How am I going to help someone?” I’m going to end with a comment that Jason is going to show you later some slides, that’s the National Lifeline crisis line, and then there’s also a crisis text line. There are many young people who are not willing to talk to someone, but they’re willing to text. I use this all the time, and it’s 741741, you’re going to see this in just a minute, but it is so important to have those options for young people so that they can when they’re struggling. You go online, 741741, and then you type in next or something, or start, S-T-A-R-T, and within minutes you’ll get a response from someone. Type in what is it? Oh sorry, they changed it. Type in hello in the text message H-E-L-L-O, and then someone will respond. It’s amazing what this does for young people who feel that they can’t talk to someone, that’s someone who can understand what they’re going through and text that back to them.

Greg Hudnall:
Once again, Jason will show you our website, HopeSquad.com. We have a site for teachers, students, and parents, but you can go on and pick up extra stuff that’s free. So bless you for what you’re doing my fellow educators and let’s continue to support each other and help kids. Thank you very much.

Jason Johnson:
Thank you so much. I’ve got the text sign up right now and then I’m going to put some of the resources up in a minute, but please let’s give a big huge virtual round of applause to our panelists, especially our student panelists. Your voice is so important. Christian used the word “my heart is full.” I feel the same way. I had goosebumps at a couple times during this discussion when I heard about the incredible things that you’re doing. Big thank you to all our educators and counselors that have logged in and are trying to take this information so that they can continue to make a difference. Then lastly a huge thank you to Greg and to Christian for the work that you’re doing. Thank you all so much. I’m going to put up those resources now, and please reach out to us, there’s anything we can do to help you out. This is a really, really important topic, and thank you all for making the difference that you’re making. Have a great day everybody. Thank you so much.