Episode 005: Hotep

Christian Moore:
Welcome to the Resilience Breakthrough Podcast. This is Christian Moore.

Dave Biesinger:
And I’m Dave Biesinger. We’re here. This is episode five and last time around, as you may remember, if you listened to the episode, we had Miranda Beard on the show, and that was a killer interview. And one of the things she talked about that was so powerful was creating businesses. Being entrepreneurs as a way of reinvesting in communities and lifting communities. You know, Christian, so often rich people come in and they extract wealth from communities but very rarely do we see entrepreneurs and business owners really investing in communities and lifting the entire community.

Christian Moore:
As I travel around this country, I see so much of that. We have plenty of resources and there’s a percentage that gets access to those resources and there’s a huge percentage that doesn’t, and that’s been really, really emotional for me in my travels. Sometimes I’ll say, “Man, I wish I could take someone in one area and show them all these resources just down the road or in another area.” And just geographical resources have had such a impact on my life, on my travels, what motivates me to be out there on the road and screaming about these issues. It’s resources. If you look at people who are highly resilient, they have access to resources. Nobody’s resilient in a vacuum.

Dave Biesinger:
Well, it’s true. And there are so many resources available and I think part of the problem is it’s an awareness issue. I mean, I remember as a young college student, I didn’t come from a very advantaged background. I didn’t even know about the FAFSA. And I think they’re a lot of people who don’t even know that every single person in America is entitled to some federal grant as long as you meet the income qualification, which I qualified for but at first I didn’t even know about it. So, I think there’s an awareness piece.

Dave Biesinger:
But then the other thing is I really believe that some of these resources are a little hidden. I think that we’re intentionally not making some of the resources that are available obvious so that they don’t get overrun. I don’t know. Maybe that’s too [crosstalk 00:02:08]

Christian Moore:
There’s always an allocation of … There are so many resources to go around, there’s an allocation of resources and usually someone who’s controlling resources has access to tremendous power. And they might not be malicious about it, but they’re going to give those resources in ways that fit their maybe agenda, their political views. It’s interesting, one of the four sources of resilience is something called resource resilience. As I started studying people that had the ability to bounce back, I noticed when I asked them the question, “Okay, what did you tap into that enabled you to do that?” They could usually identify three or four different resources. I mean, from relationships to some of their talents, their abilities. They maximized something internally that they had or externally. They got something in the environment that helped them or they had something internally that helped them. For me in my personal life, I’ve had to be able to maximize … I was diagnosed with ADHD so I tend to have a lot of energy.

Dave Biesinger:
You were in therapy with a young man who had just stolen a truck and you talk about how he had to teach himself … I mean, this was a semi-truck and he had to teach himself how to shift the gears and there was all these really complicated things that he had to figure out to steal these semi-trucks. He kind of had it all planned out. And one of the things that I think that’s so powerful about that story is what you saw was potential. What you saw was energy. And this was a very enterprising young man who just needed to channel that energy and all that intelligence in a different direction.

Christian Moore:
Yeah. He had tremendous problem-solving skills. I mean, the ability to steal that truck and he also stole a couple of cars as well that same day. But his ability to problem-solve. He was bold, he was a risk-taker. I remember trying to explain to his mom that, “Look, about a big percentage of businesses go out of business within the first three years.” I can’t remember, I think 70%, something like that, go out of business. And I say, “You know, this risk-taking behavior, if it’s channeled into being an entrepreneur, if it’s channeled into something positive, could actually be a tremendous resource.”

Christian Moore:
But the ability to maximize your skillset at where you’re staying … All of us have x number of resources in the moment. For example, we’re dealing with a coronavirus right now and we’re all … I would say, now we’re in the same storm. We’re not in the same boat of resources but we’re in the same storm. And I tell you, at the beginning of this I remember saying, “Hey, we’re kind of all in the same situation. We’re in the same boat.” We’re not in the same boat, we’re in the same storm. Some of these boats are crushing.

Dave Biesinger:
Some of us are in a rowboat and some of us are in the Titanic.

Christian Moore:
Yes, yes. Yes. And some of us on a sleek, a beautiful yacht or whatever.

Dave Biesinger:
Yeah, a clipper ship or something.

Christian Moore:
Yeah. But what I’m saying is, we’re all in the same storm right now but we’re all dealing with the storm with different resources. And I think coming out of this has got my attention looking at, “Okay. How do we help people maximize the resources in the reality of the world they’re living in?” And I think people who have access to resources have got to really, really look at the old, lift yourself up by your bootstraps but you have laces to pull yourself up with. I think the haves need to … We need to start sharing, we need to get those laces out to as many people as possible so they can pull themselves up.

Dave Biesinger:
And I think at least here in the United States, one of the best ways to lift yourself out of poverty might be entrepreneurship. But either way, I mean, education is another pathway too but that also has problems. And that’s why we brought on our guest today to talk about entrepreneurship, to talk about hustling, to talk about resources and accessing resources. And so, we just want to welcome right now to the show, Hotep.

Hotep:
Hey, what’s going on fellas?

Christian Moore:
Hey Hotep. Great to hear your voice. Now, I have a little history with Hotep. We go back at least, I don’t know, 10, 12 years. And so, I appreciate you taking time Hotep to be on my podcast with me. You’re someone … And probably the best way I can complement you is with my … You’re someone that my two kids, Cooper and Carson have great admiration for. You’ve been a great example to them and … I mean literally, these kids have met a lot of people through me and they’re always like two of their favorite people is you and your business associate Redd. And my kids love both of you guys tremendously. So, I appreciate you being here on the podcast.

Hotep:
Thank you so much. It’s an honor and a pleasure to be here with you my brother. And so, thank you. Anytime I have an opportunity to work with you Christian and the WhyTry Organization, you know we at Hustle University we’ll do so, jump at it.

Christian Moore:
Now, we appreciate. The name of your organization, Hustle University, is something that has meant a lot to me personally and is something that I think kind of drew me to you. As a kid growing up outside of Baltimore, I definitely got exposed to the positive and negative worlds to hustling. But what I was so impressed, is how you define the word hustle and I definitely want to start out by asking you that question though, is what is that word mean to you? And then I want to jump into your background a little bit but just I think a lot of people listening to this might hear the word hustle and be a little confused. So, if you could define that right upfront, I think is really important.

Hotep:
Right. Well, thank you very much. So ultimately, when we utilize the word hustle, the context in which we utilize that word actually comes from Webster’s dictionary. Although, you’ll find different connotations where people utilize the word differently. If you look in Webster’s dictionary, you can see hustle is a verb, and it means to act aggressively when it comes to business dealings. So, our position at Hustle University is very simple. If a person wants to be successful at achieving any goal, whether it financial, academic, relational or what have you, you need to act aggressively towards that end. And so, it’s very simple. You need to be about what it is that you’re involved in and put forth the effort to be successful. Because in this world, we understand that nothing is given and everything is earned.

Dave Biesinger:
Well, that’s so true. And we live, for better or worse, in a meritocracy where … I mean, I think that’s true in any community, even communities that have democratic socialism there’s certainly a meritocracy. But man, here in the United States where we have fewer social safety nets and things like that, it’s dog eat dog a little bit out here, isn’t it?

Hotep:
It is. Unfortunately, that’s the conversation I have with a lot of people when it comes to education and social issues. It would be nice to appeal and hope that people would do the right thing, the most altruistic thing, the thing that benefits everybody on a equal playing field. However, in the real world that we live in today at least, especially in a democratic society where we are capitalistic as well, it is dog eat dog world. And I don’t say whether that’s good or bad, it’s ultimately with that understanding that a person understand that they have to, as Christian mentioned earlier, do a better job of believing in themself, a better job advocating for themself and shifting their mindset. And so, a lot of what I’m going to talk about today is around mindset, what’s known as poverty mindset. And I’m going to share with you guys how that poverty mindset makes all of the difference in how a person acts and behaves and utilizes the resources that they do have, whether a lot, abundant or very minimal.

Dave Biesinger:
Yeah. Well, let’s just jump into then. Like, what do you mean by poverty mindset because I think some people might take that the wrong way and say, “Well, they’re in poverty because it’s their fault.”

Hotep:
Right.

Dave Biesinger:
So, what do you mean by a poverty mindset?

Hotep:
So ultimately, I’ve been doing a lot of work around mindset. A lot of people have heard of what’s known as growth mindset. And ultimately, there’s several different types of mindsets out there. One is known as poverty mindset. Now, poverty mindset is officially defined as a system of attitudes, beliefs and perspectives that guide decision-making. So, that’s what a mindset is, attitudes, beliefs and perspectives that guide how a person behaves. And so ultimately, a poverty mindset is one in which the holder of that type of mindset, it debilitates them from being able to sustain their lives in any type of way.

Hotep:
And so ultimately, I can give a quick example, the person that suffers from poverty mindset … And let me be clear that a poverty mindset is not indicative of all poor people. So, what poverty mindset first of all does is help re-envision how people address people in low income situations. There’s a difference between being poor, which is a financial condition or economic condition and suffering from poverty mindset, and it’s two different things. I’ve been poor before. Christian has been poor before. You have been poor before but you’ve been able to make decisions and navigate out of that financial condition to step out of poverty like many people have.

Hotep:
However, the majority of us, when we think back to when we were poor and lived in those poor conditions in those poor communities with those poor schools and those poor resources, we look at ourselves and say, “Hey, I made it out. Why are so many other people still there? Because I came from that very same neighborhood.” And so, the difference when anybody answers that question, when they think about it, they say, “You know what? I did things differently. I thought about myself differently. I thought about people differently. And as a result of that, I utilized that type of mindset to navigate this course of life which brought me to a different economic condition. All people can do this. All people can do this.” And so, that’s what poverty mindset really speaks to.

Dave Biesinger:
Well, that’s a beautiful thing. Another interesting aspect of what you’re saying here about poverty mindset, and I think we need to make this clear, so it is true that just because you’re poor in resources doesn’t mean you have a poverty mindset. It can also be true that someone who is rich in resources can have an impoverished mind.

Hotep:
Absolutely.

Dave Biesinger:
I know many people who are wealthy and miserable because of their mindset.

Christian Moore:
Well, research shows that. You can have a lot of money and not be real happy, not be motivated and not willing to grind. And so, yeah, that mindset. Caroline, was it Dweck? Am I saying that right? Carol Dweck. She has a powerful, powerful book on this concept of mindset but I love what you’re talking about, adding poverty to it. A poverty mindset is something to think about that how we see so many things in our life determines where we put effort, where we still have hope and those things are so important to have those skills, those perspectives. I know Hustle University, you have the Hustler’s 10 Commandments and you have some different things that help people push through those mindsets.

Hotep:
That’s right. Can I speak to that?

Christian Moore:
Hotep, in your own life … Yeah, yeah. Please do.

Hotep:
Can I speak to that real quick?

Christian Moore:
Yeah.

Hotep:
So, the reason why I brought up the concept of poverty mindset is because it’s relatively new to a lot of people in regards to addressing people in low income communities, addressing their conditions. What it does is help shift the conversation because what we found is that a lot of people have a tendency to pity poor people. They speak in ways that the framework in which they speak to people in low economic conditions, comes from a framework of pity, which they mean to be empathetic but really it comes speak to a level of pity.

Dave Biesinger:
It’s like you’re struggling with this or you … I totally know what you mean. Like the entire language around people who are of a low social economic status is really putting them in a one-down category. And we are up here looking down on you, pitying where you are.

Hotep:
Yes. And so ultimately, when people go through the poverty mindset training, it shifts their perspective to help one see how they’re complicit in that speaking pity to people and shifting their own language, their own actions and the way they deal with people to help them see from a position of power. So, shifting from speaking from a pity position to a position of power.

Hotep:
So, let me just share with you real quick what poverty mindset looks like in a person. A person that suffers from poverty mindset tends to be a consumer. They tend to be very pessimistic. They have a pessimistic worldview. Oftentimes, they complain about problems, they focus on the lack in their life, they have a tendency to blame other people. Albeit amidst all of this, feeling entitled. That’s the interesting thing and that we can talk about that. We’re talking about people that have little or nothing but yet still feel entitled. They have a tendency to see obstacles and to be very prideful. And so, when I share that outlook and they say, “Wow, I know a lot of people. I know teachers that suffer from poverty mindset.” And what we’re able to do with the training and the understanding of poverty mindset then are able to shift people from the mindset of poverty to what’s known as achievement mindset.

Hotep:
Now, because you guys talked about entrepreneurship, this is how I got involved in the poverty mindset certification program and the research in this. So, achievement mindset, which is different from growth mindset, for this person who tends to be a producer, they tend to have a optimistic worldview. They are constantly finding solutions. They’re focusing on abundance, they take responsibility for their lives, they believe in earning, they see opportunities and they tend to be more humble. And so, when I learned this, the difference between poverty mindset and what’s known as achievement mindset, when I looked at the whole list of achievement mindset, I said, “Oh, that sounds like me. That sounds like a hustler right there. That sounds like an entrepreneur.”

Hotep:
And so, that’s ultimately how I got involved and partnered with the Poverty Mindset Research Institute because they recognized the work I was doing under Hustle University was in 100% alignment with the antithesis to poverty mindset, which is achievement mindset. Go get it, make a way for yourself, hustle. So, I just wanted to share that outlook with you because when you guys started talking about entrepreneurship, my blood started bubbling because you talk about entrepreneurship, I’m ready to roll. Let’s go, let’s go!

Christian Moore:
Hey Hotep, I’m always trying to figure out, when people are rock bottom, when they have every reason, from where they’re standing, not to put one foot in front of another, if you had to share two or three things that kind of causes the flip the switch where we say to ourselves, “How do I use this problem to change this mindset, to work through this?” If you had to point out two or three things that you see that kind of helps flip that switch when a person’s rock bottom. And I know right now with COVID and stuff, a lot of people are feeling rock bottom. What are some of your insights on that?

Hotep:
Ultimately, to your point earlier, one of the things that I know for a fact is that crisis like the COVID situation, a crisis will do one of two things to people. It’ll either break them or it will make them. And so, as you mentioned earlier, we’re not all in the same boat, we’re in the same storm but we’re not in the same storm because some people are utilizing this time and it’s going to make them, where other people it’s going to break them. And the difference is, like we talked about, part of that different is this mindset. And for me personally, when you asked me earlier about my childhood, one of the … I’m a benefactor, or beneficiary I should say, of two parents who help me develop a very strong self-esteem. A very strong sense of self and belief in self.

Hotep:
And so, from that belief, from my name itself, they named me with intention, they raised me and my brothers with intention. And they poured into us in such a way that when I look at the world, I view myself as a person who can impact the world. That my voice, my actions literally change the world. I believe that because I believe I’m a powerful person. And I believe that all human beings are powerful, can do the same thing that I’m saying right now. The difference is many people that I know personally, and I’m talking about adults, whether rich or poor, do not understand their own innate power. They were not raised in such a way. And so, as a result of that, they tend to play a different role where I may see myself as a victor, other people see themselves as a victim.

Hotep:
And so for me, the first thing, to answer your question Christian, is I understand that belief in oneself is fundamental to all of this. So, that’s one. As a result of that belief, when things happen to me … Like you said, I’m in the storm too. I’m in it just like everybody else but I’ve developed competencies and habits and a mindset in which I’ve always remained productive through this time, so I use this time. And you know what? I’ve been posting this on my social media, I say, “You know what? During the quarantine, here are some things you can do. Read a book, write a book. Take a online course, create a online course. But stay productive in this time.” And I do that and what it does is it keeps my mind off of the negativity. I can’t even see the negativity. I can’t see all the problems because I am so focused and engaged in productivity.

Hotep:
So, that would be my second thing that I would recommend that people do, is one, develop or you find resources to help them develop a stronger sense of self, self-confidence. And if you’re looking for a way to do that, the first way is to start where you are strong, very practically. Start where you are strong. So, if you recognize that you don’t feel confident about yourself, find those things. Look at those things that you already do well and start there, start building from that point.

Dave Biesinger:
Hotep, I want to come back to this but I want to go back for just a minute to something you said. So, here’s something really ironic. Christian and I have a text thread going yesterday with our friend Clint Martin. We’re talking, we did not plan this, we’re talking about mindset and how we come about having the mindset that we have and how we can rewrite that mindset intentionally. And so Clint says, and I love his language, “I think we can think of our mindset as maybe a set of programs like computer programs that are running in our brain. But really what Clint says is they’re like stories. It’s the stories that we choose to believe about ourselves. And something you said a minute ago was very powerful because you were blessed with two parents who told you stories about yourself and you believed those stories.

Dave Biesinger:
Now, not all of us are so privileged to have such talented storytellers as parents who weave a vision of our future. Some of our parents tell us that we’re worthless, some of our parents tell us that we’ll never achieve anything in life. So, I personally, I had some scripts running in my own head that I’ve had to rewrite and it’s been tough. I didn’t even know I was running those scripts. I didn’t even know those were stories I was believing until I personally started engaging in a mindfulness meditation practice and started to deconstruct them and ask myself, “Why am I believing these things?” Because I thought that those stories were protecting me from harm but it turns out Hotep, that those harms were imagined. Those harms were never real. Those harms were what are called heuristics by Daniel Kahneman. I don’t know if you’ve read the book Thinking, Fast and Slow. But they were little stories that I told myself as a response to trauma that were meant to protect me but that were holding me back. My stories became a prison.

Hotep:
Absolutely. That’s well said. And to Clint’s point, absolutely. They are scripts, they are stories. It’s what was called in psychological terms, self-talk. All of us engage in self-talk on a daily basis, on a minute by minute, second by second basis. And those scripts that were embedded in us through our parents and our early childhood are the same scripts that we run today. We don’t know it, we don’t pay attention to it, it’s subconscious but it’s called self-talk. And a lot of the work that we do with our socioemotional learning curriculum is centered on readjusting how people talk to themselves. Because, to your point, this thing here is an insidious challenge that all of us face. How do you change the way you think? Because as Albert Einstein said, “It’s difficult to change a problem with the same mindset that created it.”

Hotep:
And so ultimately, that’s where we as educators is so important. Because if we understand what’s happening to people, where their challenge really is, it’s not even a matter of finance, that’s not finances. You can always make a way with the right mindset. So if we, one, as educators and adults, one, develop and improve our own mindset, study what mindset looks like and how it impacts other people, then learn how to address certain mindsets and then shift it into a more productive mindset, we can change this world.

Hotep:
But ultimately, it requires a person … What I found is it typically requires a person outside of ourselves to intervene. It always requires a person outside of ourselves, whether it’s a mentor, a coach, a parent, a teacher, to tell us a new story, to help reinforce a new story. And that’s the reason why I speak about the difference between speaking pity and speaking power because in our trainings that we offer for teachers all around the world, they’re well meaning, they really want to help children, but unfortunately, they’re speaking pity.

Dave Biesinger:
They need a catalyst.

Hotep:
Yes. Yes.

Christian Moore:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my whole life, just what you’re saying, I’ve had that catalyst that has shown up for me. It was Mama Jackson. It’s interesting, you, as you come into my life and as I was out speaking and trying to help people heal and overcome challenges, is just having you believe in me early on in my career and say, “Hey Christian, try this, do this. You got to believe in yourself.” Had a huge impact on me and I have you, several people in my life, that believe in me no matter what’s going on. I wish I had a magic wand.

Hotep:
You’re one of those people for me big brother. I know you like to defer over on my side but dawg, let me tell you, Christian you are one of those intervening people in my life as a upcoming entrepreneur. You and I met when I was in early phases of developing Hustle University into the consulting firm that it is today. I was just basically a guy out here with a book and idea of attempting to make a way, and you saw something in me. And as much as I see that myself, to have other people validate that is very important, especially people that I can look up to, people that I respect, people that I defer to. And it is your confidence and belief … I remember what you said. You said, “I see you guys. You guys got some good stuff.” And you said, “You guys are going to make it.” That’s what you said, and something to that extent.

Christian Moore:
Yeah.

Hotep:
And of course I always believe that about myself, but to hear it from someone that’s out there, that’s doing it on such a level that you guys do at WhyTry, it’s like, “Wow.” It was life-changing for me. And ultimately, we can do that for other people. That’s what you did for me. You didn’t pity me, you didn’t say, “Oh Hotep, I see you. You got …” You saw my power. And doing so, it turned me into a more powerful person. I access my power more frequently.

Dave Biesinger:
That’s a beautiful thing. And Hotep, I can’t jump over the fact that your name has an Egyptian root. And one of the beautiful contribution, Egypt really is the cradle of all civilization. It’s where all of human civilization comes from. And one of the powerful things that the Egyptians understood was the power of words. And they used to write down … They were the first ones to write down magic spells. They would write things down on papyrus because they believed that if you said something and if you preserved it, it had power. Now, I don’t know about the Egyptian beliefs in an afterlife and I’m not weighing in on any of that, but I think there’s a very powerful canal of truth in that idea. Our words have power. The stories we tell are almost like a magic spell.

Christian Moore:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Hotep:
That’s great.

Christian Moore:
Absolutely. Dave, one thing that’s hit me what you just said and what Hotep’s talking about here, is other human beings are the reflection … They reflect back our own stories kind of to us. And a lot of the stuff I’ve been studying lately has really been emphasizing that who we’re with, who we hang out with, literally determines our altitude, determines how much we thrive, how much we come back from something. I’m reading a book right now called Tightrope where they’re talking about if you’re in the bottom 10% tile, the percentage that come out of that is very small. One of the things that they’re starting to see is it makes a huge impact that you have a mentor, you have people who … In WhyTry, we use the metaphor, the crabs and the pot. If you put a bunch of live crabs in a pot, if you don’t put a lid on, the crabs can’t get out because the other crabs are pulling them down.

Christian Moore:
And it’s interesting. I’m paying attention now, even in my own business as we advance, as we do different things, the people I have around me are going to really determine the ability to fly, to take things to the next level. And I think that’s in all aspects. If I want to grow emotionally, spiritually, even working on my health, working out, if I’m around people that are taking care of their physical bodies, taking care of their health, I’m more motivated. And so, the people we’re around has a huge, huge impact. And I think, going back to that first question I asked you, what helps take a person when they’re rock bottom? Those relationships are key and believing in yourself is so key. But Dave was talking about your name a little bit, the name Hotep. Man, you got to maybe share a little bit about where that name came from.

Hotep:
Yes, yes. Absolutely. So, actually my name is Imhotep, I-M-H-O-T-E-P. So, Imhotep, many people that hear that name might refer back to a movie called The Mummy because Hollywood took the name Imhotep and turned him into the mummy and made him a evil guy. But actually, Imhotep was historically the first multi genius. He was a well-renowned scientist, mathematician [crosstalk 00:30:35]

Dave Biesinger:
Yeah, architect.

Hotep:
Architect. He built the first pyramid.

Dave Biesinger:
Yeah. Built the very first pyramid ever. Yeah.

Hotep:
Absolutely. So, Imhotep translates to he who walks in peace. Hotep itself simply means peace. And so, as you can see there, just in the naming, referring back to my parents, in their naming of me, they did so with intention. Because as you said earlier Dave, words matter, names matter. And a name is a word and there’s a vibration to it and there’s intention behind it. There’s definition and history behind it. So, all throughout my life, I’m 46 years old right now, all through my life, people have been reaffirming something very powerful to me, just when they call my name.

Hotep:
Now, that would go over many people’s heads but if you think about that, that is an immensely powerful concept and idea that a person can impact the story that a person tells for the rest of their life simply by being intentional about the name that they give them. It’s like giving a person a definition, a sense of purpose and meaning on this earth. And so unfortunately, so many people don’t look at it that we are unfamiliar with that kind of information. And so, even when families name their children, they miss that opportunity many times to do such a thing and it makes a fundamental … I’m speaking to you now as your case study when it comes to that. So, entrepreneurship as a result, was very natural for me as a result of the confidence and belief that I have in myself. Because ultimately, as an entrepreneur, you have …

Hotep:
And entrepreneurship is simply the belief that I can do something or I will do something. I have an idea, I have a voice and I can make something out of it. And as a result of that, because I’m powerful, I don’t have to wait on anyone else to give me permission to do so. See, that’s what entrepreneur … The powerful thing about entrepreneurship and it’s natural for people who think with the achievement type of mindset because you know that you don’t have to wait for a boss or a company, or an investor, or a partner, or anybody to give you the green light to do that which you want to do. And so [crosstalk 00:33:04]

Dave Biesinger:
That’s a really powerful concept. I don’t want to jump over just yet because I know … I saw on your website you do talk about education as a pathway for some people. And obviously, it can be combined with entrepreneurship. But I think one of the problems with people who whether they’re earning wages annually or on salary and who are relying on that education path, is it takes so much of the control out of our own hands.

Dave Biesinger:
I’m waiting for an institution to tell me you have this piece of paper, you are now good enough to enter the workforce and get a job. Now I’m waiting for this employer to say, “Okay. I’m going to put a value on you as a human being. You’re worth $50,000 a year or you’re worth $14 an hour.” And I am waiting for other people to assign values to me and it sets my own mindset possibly for my entire life. There are people who get a job out of college and really don’t increase their income their entire lives because they had it fixed in their minds at that moment in time, this is who I am and this is what I’m worth.

Hotep:
Absolutely. You speak very well Dave, I like the way you frame things. For me, because I’m African American, entrepreneurship is even more important. For me, I see entrepreneurship as the key to freedom for all people. So, as much as I’m the founder of Hustle University, CEO and all those different things, my official title is business abolitionist, business abolitionist. I created that title.

Dave Biesinger:
You got to unpack that. You got to unpack that man.

Christian Moore:
Wow. I’ve never [crosstalk 00:34:35] business …

Hotep:
Business abolitionist.

Dave Biesinger:
Unpack what that means.

Hotep:
The reason why … I’m going to tell you. But the reason why … Again, all this is an extension of belief in self. I believe I’m powerful enough to create my own term, so while other people are CEO or corporate executive, all these different things, no, business abolitionist is my title. And I call myself that because I believe that entrepreneurship is the key to freedom for all people. It’s either ownership or it’s slave ship. Now, as a black person, when I say that, that should rock somebody. Like it just rocked you guys, you guys ain’t even black, you know what I’m saying?

Dave Biesinger:
Well, I know but … I mean dude, there’s some controversial, I mean, history and all sorts of stuff that we can get into but you keep going. I want to hear what you have to say.

Hotep:
So in short, I believe it’s either ownership or slave ship and so again, that idea is a shift in mindset but for African Americans, for us, poverty mindset is akin to what’s known as slave mentality. So, for many African Americans in this country in particular, we tend to suffer, and oftentimes do suffer, from that deficit of mind because of the conditions that our ancestors went through and we still tell that negative script, have that negative script running somewhere in us, of that, “I’m a lowly slave. Oh, woe is me. and a white man is better than me. So therefore, I have to wait for other people to give me value, to tell me who I am, to tell me what I can do.” It’s an extension of all of that. [crosstalk 00:36:12] go ahead.

Dave Biesinger:
Well, and let me just say too, there’s a flip side of that coin. I think everything you said is true but I think the flip side of that coin is there are big, powerful organizations who make it a business to … I mean, redlining wasn’t just about denying mortgages to African Americans. It was also about setting up property owners so that they could extract wealth from African American communities. I mean, they set up black people to not be able to purchase homes so that they could rent them their homes and make money out of them and extract wealth from their communities. So, I think there’s kind of two sides of the same coin here.

Christian Moore:
Yeah. And in 2020, you still have communities, they don’t have access to banks, they don’t have access to grocery stores, good produce. And so, the …

Hotep:
So, I would respond to that. Well, everything you guys said is okay and I like this part of the conversation right here. As you guys know, as I said earlier, I always speak from a position of power. So, as much as there are adversities and challenges and people against maybe an African American agenda, black people are equally as powerful, capable and intelligent as any other group of people. So, if the bank ain’t giving me no money, then I build my own bank.

Dave Biesinger:
I love it.

Christian Moore:
Wow. Wow.

Hotep:
If the school isn’t teaching me what I need to know, I build my own school. You see, now that’s the shift in mindset.

Dave Biesinger:
That’s the only way out.

Christian Moore:
So, it’s taking that power back. What I hear you saying is you have to take that power back and that’s [crosstalk 00:37:40]

Dave Biesinger:
While there might be people trying to victimize you, you can’t be a victim. There might be people out to get you but you can’t let them get you.

Christian Moore:
Yes. [inaudible 00:37:48]. You got to tear off those labels. You cannot fulfill the label of ignorant … When ignorant people label, you cannot fulfill that ignorance because it’s ignorance.

Dave Biesinger:
Yeah. Yeah.

Hotep:
So it’s like I said, it’s either own … Again, that phrase is very simple but powerful all at the same time. It’s either ownership or slave ship. And I believe that and understand that. Then I recognize that if I don’t own something, then ultimately I put myself in a condition or a position where I’m always at the beckoning call or at the decision-making of other people. So, if I don’t like the decision-making of other people, i.e. slave ship, then I get on the ownership. I should never, no one, no matter what race, should ever expect anyone to do for them the way you would do for yourself.

Hotep:
And so, that’s the reason why entrepreneurship is important to me and is also the reason why I’m on this mission to help shift from poverty mindset to achievement mindset. Because as a business abolitionist, I consider doing that work similar to the works of Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglass and any abolitionist in the past. Freeing people from the slave ship and bringing them to that ownership through entrepreneurship.

Christian Moore:
That’s beautiful man. That is so beautiful. The need is massive and the work we’re doing trying to get resilience and socioemotional education to children early and I think we need to add a third phase there with teaching the reality of taking that empowerment back and having ownership of something. We got to get this to kids early as possible. I know Hotep in your history, you were an elementary school teacher. Hotep if you were back in that classroom, if you were … And remind me what grade you taught but if you were back with those kids, I believe you … Was it first grade you taught? What was it that you taught?

Hotep:
I taught 10 years of fifth grade and five years of kindergarten.

Christian Moore:
All right. Yeah, kindergarten. If you were back there as a teacher Hotep, how would you communicate that to students? And do you agree with me that we should start teaching these skills really early? Do you think these are more financial literacy and ownership and stuff? Should that be … When do you see that being taught? And I guess my question is, how would you apply that in the education system?

Hotep:
Yes. So, absolutely. You guys, we all know that ultimately by the time a person’s five years old, a lot of who they are and who they become has already been formed by the time they’re five years old. And then the next indicator is around fifth grade. Basically if a person has it by fifth grade, they got it. And if they don’t have it, they never will. These are what the research says about human beings and human development in our education system.

Hotep:
So, what that says is really, to be honest, as much as people like to talk about a school to prison pipeline, there’s really a home to prison pipeline that isn’t talked enough about. Again, because people don’t want to have that conversation because it sounds like blaming the victim but ultimately … Again, that’s the reason why I always frame it this way, when you speak from a position of power and you know it’s ownership or slave ship, the more we focus on ownership and taking responsibility for ourselves, our livelihood, our communities, if you don’t like what the police are doing, build your own security force, like the FOI in the Nation of Islam. [crosstalk 00:41:19]

Hotep:
So, to your point, absolutely. It starts early, it starts at home. As we all know, I’m currently in practice of this right now with my first child who’s about to turn one in about two weeks.

Christian Moore:
And tell you what Hotep, watching you be a dad has been an amazing thing to watch. I mean, just even from a far and as you post things about him. And if you feel comfortable, please mention his name and what you’re doing from a parenting standpoint with him. I’m more of the observant. As a clinical social worker watching you, I’ve been very proud of you man.

Hotep:
Thank you. Thank you. It’s an amazing thing. I mean, I’ve never talked … As much as my organization serves parents, I never spoken to parents about parenting because I’ve never been a parent before and I know there’s a difference between theory and practical application. Before the last year, I’ve actually been a parent, I’ve engaged in the process of parenting and it’s an amazing feeling, it’s an amazing … It’s making me a better human being. I believe I’m more human now, today, than I ever was before becoming a parent.

Hotep:
That being said, because I recognize some of the great things that my parents did for me, when I was young. Then I just carry … I follow that path, so I named my son with intention. He’s name is Saladin. Saladin is an African name. It means righteous warrior. And the way we translate that is someone who fights the good fight. So, our intention for him is to be strong but to also be righteous and to be in this world just like all of us on this call are doing, fighting the good fight because it is a good fight but it is a battle.

Dave Biesinger:
Saladin is a very famous historical figure.

Hotep:
Yes, he is. Yes, he is. And ironically, I’d never heard anyone … I’ve never met anyone named Saladin before.

Dave Biesinger:
I don’t have either. I mean, the only time I’ve heard that name is in the recounts of … He went against the crusaders. Wasn’t he the one?

Hotep:
Exactly. He was one of the last sultans in Egypt to fight off the crusaders that attempted to take over [crosstalk 00:43:30]

Dave Biesinger:
Didn’t he trick them into moving away from their water so they got really thirsty in the desert and killed them off? Isn’t that how he defeated the crusaders?

Hotep:
That story, I’m not familiar with. It could very well be. I’m not familiar with that.

Dave Biesinger:
I think he did. I think he did. I think he outfoxed them. He got them to leave the water. He kind of sallied forth until they chased them out into the desert and then flanked them and killed them off. So, it was cool man. Truly a righteous crusader indeed.

Christian Moore:
Man, I’m learning all kinds of stuff today, man. That’s wild.

Hotep:
Yes, yes. So, I’m really grateful. I want to say to you guys, I’m very grateful for the opportunity to talk about these types of issues. I have a tendency to speak from a different perspective than what people assume but I believe … Again, I believe in myself and I believe that this perspective is important for people to hear. Shifting from speaking to people from pity to power, from poverty mindset to achievement mindset, from slave ship to ownership. These types of transitions and shifts will change the world and I’m grateful to you guys for the work that you’re doing in being a part of that. Because resilience, that’s why me and Christian connected when we first met because Christian is the resilience king and I said, “Man look, I’m a hustler. Resilience ain’t nothing to me, that’s in my DNA.” Because all hustlers are resilient, that’s a necessity.

Christian Moore:
That’s right. That’s right.

Hotep:
If a person is engaged in hustling, if you’re serious and if you believe in yourself and you have a vision for yourself and you’re focused on achieving that, you don’t have to teach a person resilience because resilience comes by nature when a person is in that mindset, in that framework. So, I’m grateful to the work that you’re doing because I mean, we’re in a quarantine right now. There’s no other time that I have been familiar with that a person needs to develop the skill of being resilient than right now. Right now.

Christian Moore:
Absolutely. I totally agree. And Hotep, you have probably never said this but I have to share this. I’ve stood in the back of the room in many speeches you’ve given and I’ve interacted with the audiences when they walk out. And you were just saying a minute ago that you’re out of the box a little bit. You’re not maybe as orthodox or as … You’re willing to say and look at things through a different filter. And in this world, there are so many things that we have to change and we have to really prioritize each other but we care about each other more when we care about ourselves first.

Christian Moore:
And your message, as I’ve talked to people after your message, is very life-changing for them. Many of them say they have a new paradigm shift after hearing you speak. And I think that’s one of the powerful things in your work that Hustle University is doing, is one, you’re willing to speak truth, you’re willing to say some of the difficult things but at the same time, you lead people with real tools, real skills to bounce back to be resilient. And I love that quote, all hustlers have to be resilient. That’s a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Dave Biesinger:
That is a beautiful quote. Just kind of as we wrap up here, I want to make sure that we know if people want to get ahold of you, what is the best way to do that? Where can people reach you?

Hotep:
That’s interesting. So, I’ve been making some adjustments. So, although Hustle University is the name of our corporation, the work we do in education is under our Make a Way Consulting Firm. So, in regards to this conversation, they can go to the website makeawaynow.com. That’s makeawaynow.com. That’s where everything is housed for the work that we do for schools, administrators, teachers, students and parents. And in our social media, anything is @hustleuniversity. So, we use our corporate for any social media. We’re on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Dave Biesinger:
Awesome. Fantastic. I mean, I think … I really believe, like we said before when we were kind of firing the show up, Miranda brought this up last week, which is one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you this week. I really believe and you’ve just made it … You’ve put such a fine point on this. I believe that without taking ownership, without being intentional, without rewriting some of the negative scripts that either our parents or organizations or society, or racism, or anything else has put on us, without rewriting those scripts, without taking ownership of ourselves. No one is going to tell us a pretty story about our future. We are not entitled to a nice story from anybody. If anybody gives us that, it’s a gift.

Hotep:
That’s right.

Dave Biesinger:
We have to take control of our own narrative and write our own future, right?

Hotep:
My man Dave, I like that one right there. Yes sir. You said it all. You wrapped it all up with a bow and a beautiful wrapping there. That was wonderful. Yes, that’s where the ownership starts. Ownership starts with oneself. I’m not talking about just owning companies, I’m talking about taking ownership for yourself, your actions, your responsibility, your household, your neighborhood, your community. When a person has that type of mentality and mindset, all the rest is easy because you’re not looking at what other … You’re not concerned about what other people are doing or not doing, you’re focused on the solution, not the problem [crosstalk 00:48:54] entrepreneurs.

Christian Moore:
Yeah. One thing I try to emphasize all the time is no teacher, counselor or social worker could change my parents’ mental illness. They couldn’t change my learning disabilities, they couldn’t change some of the challenges in the school system, but the great educators showed me all those things you were just talking about. They showed me that I had potential, I had Mrs. [Plackos 00:49:17], one of my elementary teachers, told me that I was a good artist and hang up one of my paintings for three years in her classroom. Today I make a living combining art and mental health together a little bit.

Christian Moore:
And those relationships man, made such a difference and paying attention with who we hang out with. We have to hang out with people that bring us up, that we rise up with people in our lives. And Hotep, you’ve raised my life in so many different ways man. I’m blessed to have you as a friend, to call you a friend, to call you a brother man. You’ve definitely been unconditional with me. And so many relationships in this world are conditional and I think what you’re doing is so, so important. I look forward to collaborating with you more and [crosstalk 00:50:04] I think you’re just getting started and on the backend of this, resilience is going to be needed more and more. And I really believe you’re a brother in the fight for resilience and there’s nothing special about our stories.

Christian Moore:
Our stories we … Someone helped hand us resilience. I had people in my life that taught me resilience. You had people in your life. And if you and me had access to this, every child in this country should have access to the laces, to the supports that you and me had to bounce back. But I’ll tell you man, you gave me a great education today on taking that power back and I love how Dave summed it up. Having that power or something I’m going to really talk about more when I go back out and hit the road has really emphasized that. And that’s been a great education for me today and I appreciate you taking the time to be with us and share with us. That was powerful.

Hotep:
Thank you so much my brother. Thank you dave, thank you Christian. Thank you WhyTry for the great work you guys have been doing. I’m just … I can’t say thank you enough and I’m very excited. I am very hopeful for the future. COVID-19 has changed the world probably forever but not all of that is negative. It’s forcing us to revisit a lot of things that we took for granted. It’s forcing us to come to better terms with ourselves and our families. It’s forcing us to rethink our relationships, as you mentioned, with other people because now everybody is reaching out and saying, “You know what? I haven’t spoken to so and so in a while. Let me reach out to them.” So, we’re doing a lot more outreach than we used to before. And so, we can utilize these as opportunities instead of looking at the obstacles. And I’m looking forward to seeing what schools do. I’m looking forward to being a part of the future of schools and education, side by side with my brothers in WhyTry.

Christian Moore:
Yeah, absolutely. And I have to close by letting the audience out there know that Hotep actually named my book The Resilience Breakthrough.

Dave Biesinger:
Yeah. Well, by the way that’s the name of the podcast.

Christian Moore:
Yeah. Oh my word.

Dave Biesinger:
You actually named the podcast Hotep.

Christian Moore:
I didn’t even put that together until right this second. Hotep actually named this podcast. I didn’t even … I’m just focusing on the book.

Dave Biesinger:
So, thank you Hotep.

Christian Moore:
I’m just focusing on the book. Wow Hotep, your influence. Hey man, you got to be the first guest on a podcast, it wasn’t till the end of the podcast that we figured out he actually named the podcast. That might be historic in the podcasting world. That is so funny. That is absolutely the truth. That’s how slow I am. See now …

Hotep:
Whatever reason I’ve been blessed with the insight to see genius in other people. As much as I recognize my own, I’m able to see in others. And as a part of communicating that, be able to put that in words. And so, that’s where the branding comes from. It comes from, one, being able to clarify and think in a very concise manner and put it into language the value or the genius that I see in other people and things. But ultimately, the great thing about branding and why it’s such a natural thing for me as an entrepreneur is because as Dave mentioned earlier, branding is really the process of storytelling.

Hotep:
The process of branding is developing a story and telling that story over and over again to other people. So, you do not allow other people to tell your story for you, you tell them what you want them to know and believe about you. That’s what effective branding does, that’s what I do and have done for myself. That’s what I do for my organization, I’ve done that for my son and I do that for everything. And so, that’s where the whole branding thing really comes from, in being intentional.

Dave Biesinger:
Well, that’s a very … I mean, dude that’s a super powerful idea. And if you think about where the word brand comes from … So, we brand cattle because we own that cow. So, a brand it’s this thing that you stamp on something else to say, “I own that.” So, by taking control of our own brand, we’re saying, “Nobody owns me, I own me. I am the owner of my brand. Nobody owns me.”

Hotep:
Ownership or slave ship my brother.

Dave Biesinger:
I love it.

Christian Moore:
Man …

Dave Biesinger:
This has been a great episode man.

Christian Moore:
It’s been a blast. And hey, thanks for naming this podcast. I will never forget that moment as long as I live. That made my day today. You’re the best man.

Hotep:
Anytime.

Dave Biesinger:
You’re the best Hotep. Thanks so much for your time.

Christian Moore:
Hey, we’ll be in touch.

Hotep:
Take care.

Christian Moore:
All right. Bye.

Dave Biesinger:
Bye.